BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Discuss the use of telescopes, binoculars or spotting scopes.

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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby navajojimmy » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:28 pm

http://telluricgroup.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_naru.tpl&product_id=25&category_id=9&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=99&vmcchk=1&Itemid=99

http://securitysa.com/news.aspx?pklNewsId=19700

Marshall says the new XR5 NIM tube is the very latest electro-optical technology from Europe with resolution up to 70 lp/mm and equipped with auto gating, which reduces blooming and halos to a level never seen before.
Auto Gating enables this new high-resolution image device to operate 24 hours a day without damaging the tube, offering high quality pictures from daytime to very low light levels at night.


Image
Image
Image

Very interesting.

Jim
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:21 pm

Thanks for that Jim.
I will look into it.
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:27 pm

Just out...
I do not know if any of you noticed...
The SunStar 800, which just recently I noticed that it was an EMCCD...
well, it is the L3Vision L3C216 by e2v.
What a game this CCTV nightvision business really is huh? :)

Anyway have a look at its impressive performance under overcast night almost 0 light conditions without illumination.
Simply amazing.



The whole lineup can be seen here:
http://www.idsvision.com.tw/ids/c_L3V.php
The L3C65 used to be called sunstar600 and I found someone in the US selling to for $12,900. http://www.covert-systems.com/cameras/specialized.html
The L3C216 sells for $11,389 from morovision and is also on alibaba http://www.alibaba.com/member/id1087437 ... tlist.html
No other prices yet.


I think the only one that could be used in this project is the L3C216-06 because of the smaller pixels (11.5x23).
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:50 pm

Another interesting product for telescopes, but not of much use here. The Binocular Photon Machine.
http://www.nightvisionastronomy.com/

However, I came accross it when searching for a camera (MallinCam) and came accross a guy that was involved in making them.
I emailed him and I will post when he replies.

In the meantime some info on the Collins I3 intensified eyepiece John discovered some time ago.
Just checked the Collins web site. Apparently they now have a generation 4 eyepiece. Anyone have any info.?
Maureen

Maureen, The "Gen 4" is really a misnomer in that it is a Generation 3 with thin-film technology. I have owned the non-thin filmed version and currently own the latest thin-film version. The latest version has less scintillation and the green of the phosphor is much lighter. Using the new thin-film version, the green turns pretty monochromatic after a few minutes of using it. When you use a hydrogen-alpha filter, it really increases the efficiency of the I3 and you see incredible detail in emission nebulae. The only area where the I3 is pretty ineffective is for objects that are in the blue part of the spectrum such as the big piece of blue nebulosity in the Trifid Nebula. The Trifid being red shows up quite distinctly but the blue region near it does not show up at all. With the MallinCam Hyper Color Camera, both the reds/pinks and blues show up magnificently. Hope that helps to answer some of your questions. The I3 is really painless in that there are no wires, you don't need tracking and it is a truly real-time viewing instrument. Bob


MallinCam info follows...
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:25 pm

The mallincam cameras are VERY highly regarded in the amateur astronomy world.
Apparently they are hand made in Canada and contain very efficient peltier cooling that boost dramatically the S/N ratio.
Prices are in the high lows ie. over $1000 and contain SONY interlines. Makes you wonder what's up with that! I will let you know.

http://mallincam.tripod.com/
Attachments
mchplus[1].jpg
mcxtreme[1].jpg
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:51 pm

The manufacturer makes some pretty big claims about mallincam on this thread. This is what drew my attention in the first place.

Hi,
Not sure if any of you have read the full specs but the Malincam is million miles ahead of these two product. the Toshiba IK-1000 and the Hitachi KP-E500. The Hitachi claims to have 0.000005 lux. It is false info. Look under their specification in PDF format and notice a lux of only 0.0005 in the monochrome mode. If the signal is too weak, the camera automatically goes to black and white mode. That's useless for astronomy. The Malincam does not loose its color under all lights condition. The Hitachi has an integration of only 128x which is about 2.1 seconds or so. Hitachi also claims the use of a fan and it must be replaced or clean every 3 years. They do state their camera does have white dots (hot pixels) and dark current noise while the peltier with a fan is on. Why bother put a peltier with a fan then? The MallinCam has a unique TEC system that requires no fan, no heat sink and will retain its cooling for dark current noise under the specified temperature range. The Hitachi draws 1.5 amps!! The Mallincam draws less than 500 ma, that's 1/2 an amp, very efficient in design. Malincam has 128x (2.1 sec.), 7, 14, 28, 56 seconds exposures settings with auto refresh, full DSP system, heavy-duty running time and none stop operation is possible plus the Malincam is hand crafted one at a time.

EMCCD are noisy and not suited for astronomy. They are excellent for countermeasures surveillance though.

The Hitachi and the Toshiba IK- 1000 can only have a shutter speed of 1/2000. The MallinCam does 1/12,000 in two different modes. Excellent for solar, planets, and moon without any devices attached at the front to cut light like the other two would need to do so.

Operating temperature on the Toshiba is 10 deg. C to 43 deg.C In Fahrenheit, it is 14 deg F and 113 deg.F.
Useless for colder environment and cool nights we all experience as amateur astronomers. Both companies, Toshiba and Hitachi do claim to have "white dots" and dark currant noise That's hot pixels and dark current noise affect the background for faint fuzzies we are all after under dark skies.

Here the Hitachi specs
http://www.hitachidenshi.com/supporting ... Rev1_1.pdf

Here's the Toshiba specs

http://www.toshiba.com/taisisd/indmed/p ... 1000me.jsp
The toshiba was 10,000 dollars a year an a half ago. the Hitachi is 1800.00 MallinCam does circles and out perform both cameras under dark skies with any telescope. Price: 1199.95. How do I know? I own all three of them and a Stellacam III. The Toshiba IK-1000 required a special letter from my lawyer to obtain the camera with a legal statement declaring my intention with the Toshiba camera. That's extra cost from my lawyer at 300.00 an hour. Not worth it. Before comparing fruits please compare them to fruits only, not fruits and vegetables. Malincam IS for astronomy, the other two are not.

Serge P. QUE. Canada


http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/ ... sb/5/o/all
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:17 pm

Read this on the Malincam:
With the shutter off, the CCD chip has a sensitivity control that can be manually set from 2X up to 128X in factors of two, (2X, 4X, 1X etc). When the shutter off and sensitivity is turned on, the unit automatically goes to 2 second integrations. This is enough to see faint stars and even the core of galaxies and clusters.
Then there is the “Hyper On” setting. I’m not sure what the circuitry does but I can give you an idea. The first night when I was messing with the camera it was still early spring and M42 was disappearing into the western skyglow. Naturally I selected it as my first target and was “disappointed” with the Mallincam. I could see the Trapezium, and the brighter part of the core, a little bit of the finger, all with a dull red center. This was about the image I remember with a 1 minute exposure with a Meade DSI color unit a friend had. Gee, I wonder what this “Hyper On” setting does? Tick-tock, WOW! OMG! Holy ####!The screen lit up with tendrils reaching everywhere! All you can say is “WOW”. It was noisy (3 second exposure on Hyper On), but the signal was strong, just the background sky was noisy. The image was about the equivalent I would get with a Hutech DSLR and a 1600 ISO, three minute exposure with my old LX200 10 inch. And this was three seconds. Then there is “Hyper 2”. I don’t know what this one does except doubling the exposure time to 6 seconds. It must increase the sensitivity because on bright DSO targets it is ‘overkill’, easily burning out the core of bright objects like M42 or some galaxies.
Then there is the integration time. “Hyper On” is three seconds and “Hyper 2” is six seconds. The VSS control knob allows you to take the integration time up to a full minute on “Hyper On” and two minute on “Hyper 2”. With longer integrations like this you begin to lose the “live sky” feel and proper alignment, tracking and guiding become issues. With my C14/Hyperstar combination integrations over about 30 seconds or a minute are way overkill on most targets. Generally I use integration settings of 10 to 15 seconds on most DSO targets. This preserves the “live sky” feel and gives very respectable images.


'Hyper Mode:
As explained earlier, this is the switch that kicks in the DSO circuitry. Sense has to be at 128X. There is “Off”, “Hyper On” and “Hyper 2”. The Hyper modes vary depending on target brightness, sky conditions, integration time, gamma and gain settings and the (optional) DVE setting.
'

Now what do you make of this?

Some reviews here:http://www.waningmoonii.com/Updates%20-%20July%202005/MallinCam%20Homepage.htm
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:45 am

Useful post on telescopes and cameras for tracking satellites.
http://www.sattracking.org/wiki/Trackin ... _Equipment

Also, on the page you will find some videos.
The following is allegedly the notorious B&W 1/2" EMCCD HITACHI KP-E500, coupled to a 10mm - 250mm f/1.5 zoom lens. The timing information comes from a Blackboxcamera GPS time inserter with Garmin GPS-16. The video shows the NOSS 3-4 satellite pair gliding through the background stars.

What a waste I SAY! Stick it in a HUGE F***IN TELESCOPE AND SHOW US WHAT IT CAN DO!!


On a more serious note, have you seen the sheer number of stars visible in this clip? And look at their brightness.
However I am more worried about the smearing effect. If we will be tracking these things, smearing would be highly annoying. That said, maybe the smearing had to do with his exposure settings.
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:07 am

Sometimes somethings just f*** up your day don't they.
Well today for me the deal breaker was 'vertical double-density CCD'.
I must have spent hours today trying to find out what the heck it was.
I was looking everywhere.
Finally I found out.

It is Samsung's way of saying that it is a SONY eXview. :banghead:
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:52 am

Which brings me to the work I have been doing over the weekend.
I have been trying to put all exceptional products I have come across over the last couple of months in an easily digestible form.
During this process some things started to stand out like a sore thumb.
Before I post my results, have alook at this:

Is it possible that a SUPER HAD could outperform an eXview HAD?
I am still rubbing my eyes. Of course based on manufacturer posted data. I have not searched for reviews yet.
However the lux ratings they are posting for this particular model HADs are out of this world.

The model that caught my attention first was the Samsung SHC-737.
Image
I traced this as being a 1/3" ICX639BKA or ICX638BKA Super HAD.
The immediate observation I made was that the Sensitivity Typ. (mV) column on the Sony page http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/pro/ ... video.html was the highest for any other color processors.
I thought there could be something there so I searched for other cameras with the same processor.

The first one I came across was disappointing http://www.sentechamerica.com/pages/cam ... P63_c.aspx
Image
I noticed though that it said '* The STC-N63/P63 Series is also available in High Sensitivity version.'

However look at the second one: http://digitclik.it/shop/videosecurity/ ... -600700tvl
Image
and it has this weird 700Tvl B/W same as the samsung.
However this one is actually BOASTING that it comes with this DSP chip 'DSP: WINNER IV - Day/Night'.
High sensitivity: 0.0000300 LUX with LED OFF
The SHC-737 claims 0.0025000 lux min - 0.0002000 lux with some integration
Is it possible that a DSP chip can make all that difference?

Is this SENSOR for real?
This is approaching EMCCD performance for 1/20 of the price - if it is true.
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:04 pm

I just finished talking to Alex at Mallincam (http://mallincam.tripod.com/index.html). He was very kind and helpful.
I specifically wanted to know if there were any ways of getting the camera more sensitive without integration so I asked him the following:

On the website (http://mallincam.tripod.com/id54.html) it states an option like so: '(EXview HAD CCD Sensor with greater sensitivity available as option - when available, $109.95 Extra)'. I wanted to know if this option is like a DSP upgrade or something. While not being very specific about the nature of the upgrade he let me know that it would not help much in my case.

He seemed very certain about his camera's capabilities in integration mode, but seemed unsure about its performance in my application. I do not blame him! :) Nobody has done this before by the looks of things - and by my research it seems like an impossible task unless you have s__t loads of money. Maybe I should ask Paris to sponsor me and do it right the first time! LOL

Anyway, as somebody said in one of my earlier posts:
'EMCCD are noisy and not suited for astronomy. They are excellent for countermeasures surveillance though.' and
'Malincam IS for astronomy, the other two are not. Serge P. QUE. Canada'


Well that explains why some people use them for METEOR RECORDINGS! We do not need LONG exposure integrations.

We need SENSITIVITY BRUTE FORCE...
maybe boosted by slightly longer shutter
and a bit slower refresh rates but that's it.
We also need smaller sensors maybe 1/3" to 1/2" to 10microns max.
We need the most sensitive eXview HADs, Super HADs or EMCCD/Impactrons,
we need good DSP chips.

That pretty much narrows it down quite a bit doesn't it.
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:25 pm

####################################################################################################
ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:28 pm

####################################################################################################
ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:40 pm

Are you ready for the future?
Image
http://www.techexpo.com/WWW/opto-knowle ... eprint.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by conandrum on Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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Re: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM

Unread postby conandrum » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:15 am

Guys, I just prepared a guide where I collected most of the info presented in this thread.
I called it BNVZ Guide v1.0.0.


It is attached as a spreadhseet below.
If you want me to add a camera or something else in the list let me know.
Hope you find it useful.
Attachments
BNVZ guide - v1.0.0.xlsx
BNVZ Guide v1.0.0
A useful guide to help you get started with
high magnification techniques
using Telescopes, Eyepieces, Barlows, Image Intensifying Devices, Zoom Lenses & Cameras.
(34.73 KiB) Downloaded 488 times
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ConanDrum: Looking into powerful magnification methods of identifying and recording fast moving objects in the sky!
Thread: BIG NIGHT VISION ZOOM
SOFTWARE:Afocal TECC
Equipment: Canon HF10 HD camcorder (for now)
Location: Cyprus (EU)
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